Interview
Gonçalo Amorim (TEP) and Alexis Moreno (Teatro La María)
November
2021
Thu
11
Almost a year after the streaming of the opening record for the creation process of Estreito/Estrecho (in January 2021), the play will finally be presented at Teatro Campo Alegre. Taking this time, how has the development of this work evolved?
Gonçalo Amorim (GA): I think we are in the same universe. In fact, that was one of the things we were discussing. In such a long process, try never to throw away what we are doing. A bit like painters, we were adding layers.
Of course, at this moment, Alexis [Moreno] has already written a text and the work is practically closed – from the point of view of what is said, of what is heard, of the editing of the scenes. In this sense, we are more advanced. Many of the principles that were in this opening of process continue.
Alexis Moreno (AM): The essence of the project remains. The central point of work in progress is the same as this process. It is a meeting between two companies–one Latin American, the other European–that come together to work on a common theme, in a horizontal manner. And all the imagination that opens up in this relationship. It seems to me that this remains and is fundamental in this creation.
GA: Our approach was always intended to be decolonial, acidic. But this approach–as we know–also carries with it an immense amount of tensions. Due to the artistic process itself and the distrust that exists between people who live in different territories nowadays.
No matter how much we are friends or that we have a common territory, we (Teatro Experimental do Porto and Teatro La María) always work in areas of discomfort. This is the engine of our work. We don't like to close issues, we want them to remain open. So, when we propose to work with a decolonial and satirical vision, this is a matter of work. And the work reflects–as Alexis said–this meeting between the two companies as a matter of work. Based on the themes, we also multiply the number of tensions and perplexities regarding reality, what we feel and want to convey. What ends up being reflected in the work.
Taking into account the multiple layers and visions included in this work, how will the myth of Fernão de Magalhães, the imagery of his passage through the Strait of Magalhães (in 1520, during his circumnavigation voyage) be portrayed? You talk about deconstructing the figure, profaning the narrative...
GA: Right from the start, we tried to understand what this imaginary was, because it's not very clear (laughs). For the Portuguese, at times, Magalhães is presented as a traitor, for having provided his services to Spain. Of course, Portugal is now also part of the 500th anniversary celebrations, because Fernão de Magalhães is Portuguese. Then there is the vision of Spain itself, which tries to include Elcano as the central figure in this narrative and story. And then there's the vision of Chileans and the peoples of the places where Magalhães passed. And all these countries have a different view. For example, in Mactan, Philippines, the day Lapu-Lapu [last governor of the island] killed Magalhães. And not the day he got there (laughs). Visions of that same story are wide-ranging throughout the world. So, right from the start, we didn't even need to invent much; it was enough to understand the visions that each territory has about Fernão de Magalhães, to have material for a theatricality and create a false story.
AM: What happens with figures like Fernão de Magalhães is that there is always a provocation, multiple views on his image–and everything that it represents. Therefore, these issues are also present in the work: distrust, manipulation, ignorance. In the piece, we focus on the moment when Magalhães passes through the Estreito. We decided to make up a false story from that trip. We generate a myth from the myth of Magalhães: Diogo Alves, the White Shaman of Patagonia. With a very provocative, acidic and insolent language...
GA: We imagine a figure... A Portuguese man who decided to leave Magalhães' ship and live in Patagonia, with the indigenous people–the selk'nam, people from that territory (from Tierra del Fuego). And, from there, the narrative's base is created: a trip by a Portuguese delegation to Chilean Patagonia, where they will try to organize the commemorations of the 500th anniversary of circumnavigation, together, obviously, with the municipality of Punta Arenas, capital of the Magellanic Region.
And there is a culture that is a mixture... Or it isn't anymore, because in fact the persistent colonization of this territory has made the selk'nam cease to exist. They were conditioned in concentration camps in Tierra del Fuego, where they were forced to keep to a time to wake up, to walk around dressed, to learn to pray. And, progressively, they were disappearing. Right now, there are no remnants of that culture.
The various layers of colonization processes are present in the piece, but also the violence of the Chilean government towards these regions and native peoples with political activity, such as the Mapuche. All the hypocrisy and violence of the Chilean government in relation to these original peoples, all of this is present in the work, in a nonpolitical way. There are several layers... It seems that the colonization models are reproduced by the governments themselves–often full of white people. And the text tries to piece with these layers, without forgetting that we are doing theatre. The main thing is the theatre game, what is said and what is not said, combining a more parodic register with a more violent, serious and profound register. We are two theatre companies, we try to handle all these themes, but we are aware of our weakness as artists. We are focused on the theatrical game, that the creative impact can generate reflection and enthusiasm about the themes we are working on. But knowing that we can only try to create a story.
The video – a central format in the recording of the opening process – will also be present in the work that is now being presented.
AM: The idea of using videos is that they also respect the observation of the work's creation process. The texture of the videos that will be presented are part of the process, they are not independent creations, nor are they highly produced images. They aim to add layers to the collective work. The videos generate theatricality to the work. It is a fundamental concept: the work process, the thought process, as a theatrical process. So, all the scenic elements come together in the final work, they respect this same line–that of the process. There are videos that are from our rehearsals, or with elements that represent part of the process. They are not a separate creation, nor are they looking for a symbolic, cinematographic language...
GA: We use the videos not as a prop, but to deal with the clash of materials. They are very raw. They are present to convey this tension between companies, between materials, narratives, which is felt throughout the work.
Gonçalo Amorim (GA): I think we are in the same universe. In fact, that was one of the things we were discussing. In such a long process, try never to throw away what we are doing. A bit like painters, we were adding layers.
Of course, at this moment, Alexis [Moreno] has already written a text and the work is practically closed – from the point of view of what is said, of what is heard, of the editing of the scenes. In this sense, we are more advanced. Many of the principles that were in this opening of process continue.
Alexis Moreno (AM): The essence of the project remains. The central point of work in progress is the same as this process. It is a meeting between two companies–one Latin American, the other European–that come together to work on a common theme, in a horizontal manner. And all the imagination that opens up in this relationship. It seems to me that this remains and is fundamental in this creation.
GA: Our approach was always intended to be decolonial, acidic. But this approach–as we know–also carries with it an immense amount of tensions. Due to the artistic process itself and the distrust that exists between people who live in different territories nowadays.
No matter how much we are friends or that we have a common territory, we (Teatro Experimental do Porto and Teatro La María) always work in areas of discomfort. This is the engine of our work. We don't like to close issues, we want them to remain open. So, when we propose to work with a decolonial and satirical vision, this is a matter of work. And the work reflects–as Alexis said–this meeting between the two companies as a matter of work. Based on the themes, we also multiply the number of tensions and perplexities regarding reality, what we feel and want to convey. What ends up being reflected in the work.
Taking into account the multiple layers and visions included in this work, how will the myth of Fernão de Magalhães, the imagery of his passage through the Strait of Magalhães (in 1520, during his circumnavigation voyage) be portrayed? You talk about deconstructing the figure, profaning the narrative...
GA: Right from the start, we tried to understand what this imaginary was, because it's not very clear (laughs). For the Portuguese, at times, Magalhães is presented as a traitor, for having provided his services to Spain. Of course, Portugal is now also part of the 500th anniversary celebrations, because Fernão de Magalhães is Portuguese. Then there is the vision of Spain itself, which tries to include Elcano as the central figure in this narrative and story. And then there's the vision of Chileans and the peoples of the places where Magalhães passed. And all these countries have a different view. For example, in Mactan, Philippines, the day Lapu-Lapu [last governor of the island] killed Magalhães. And not the day he got there (laughs). Visions of that same story are wide-ranging throughout the world. So, right from the start, we didn't even need to invent much; it was enough to understand the visions that each territory has about Fernão de Magalhães, to have material for a theatricality and create a false story.
AM: What happens with figures like Fernão de Magalhães is that there is always a provocation, multiple views on his image–and everything that it represents. Therefore, these issues are also present in the work: distrust, manipulation, ignorance. In the piece, we focus on the moment when Magalhães passes through the Estreito. We decided to make up a false story from that trip. We generate a myth from the myth of Magalhães: Diogo Alves, the White Shaman of Patagonia. With a very provocative, acidic and insolent language...
GA: We imagine a figure... A Portuguese man who decided to leave Magalhães' ship and live in Patagonia, with the indigenous people–the selk'nam, people from that territory (from Tierra del Fuego). And, from there, the narrative's base is created: a trip by a Portuguese delegation to Chilean Patagonia, where they will try to organize the commemorations of the 500th anniversary of circumnavigation, together, obviously, with the municipality of Punta Arenas, capital of the Magellanic Region.
And there is a culture that is a mixture... Or it isn't anymore, because in fact the persistent colonization of this territory has made the selk'nam cease to exist. They were conditioned in concentration camps in Tierra del Fuego, where they were forced to keep to a time to wake up, to walk around dressed, to learn to pray. And, progressively, they were disappearing. Right now, there are no remnants of that culture.
The various layers of colonization processes are present in the piece, but also the violence of the Chilean government towards these regions and native peoples with political activity, such as the Mapuche. All the hypocrisy and violence of the Chilean government in relation to these original peoples, all of this is present in the work, in a nonpolitical way. There are several layers... It seems that the colonization models are reproduced by the governments themselves–often full of white people. And the text tries to piece with these layers, without forgetting that we are doing theatre. The main thing is the theatre game, what is said and what is not said, combining a more parodic register with a more violent, serious and profound register. We are two theatre companies, we try to handle all these themes, but we are aware of our weakness as artists. We are focused on the theatrical game, that the creative impact can generate reflection and enthusiasm about the themes we are working on. But knowing that we can only try to create a story.
The video – a central format in the recording of the opening process – will also be present in the work that is now being presented.
AM: The idea of using videos is that they also respect the observation of the work's creation process. The texture of the videos that will be presented are part of the process, they are not independent creations, nor are they highly produced images. They aim to add layers to the collective work. The videos generate theatricality to the work. It is a fundamental concept: the work process, the thought process, as a theatrical process. So, all the scenic elements come together in the final work, they respect this same line–that of the process. There are videos that are from our rehearsals, or with elements that represent part of the process. They are not a separate creation, nor are they looking for a symbolic, cinematographic language...
GA: We use the videos not as a prop, but to deal with the clash of materials. They are very raw. They are present to convey this tension between companies, between materials, narratives, which is felt throughout the work.
© José Caldeira
