Interview
Tânia Dinis / TEP
June
2023
Tue
13
On June 16th and 17th, Tânia Dinis premieres Elas entram e ficam! at Teatro Rivoli, a performance that celebrates 70 years of Teatro Experimental do Porto. We talked with the artist about the presentations, which reflects on the role, stories and micro-stories of the female characters, represented throughout the company's history.
Are there differences in cultural policies in a company like Teatro Experimental do Porto (TEP) today and in the early 70s?
There are many differences... Within the research that we were doing, and I am speaking in the plural, of course I have a very participatory team in the creation of "Elas entram e ficam!". But when I speak in the plural, I'm talking about me and Pedro Bastos, who did the research with me and wrote the text. All my work is done from memory and from the archive. So I decided to work from the photographic archive and beyond, from the pieces and other visual elements, but to try to understand which female characters were interpreted over these 70 years. Therefore, we focused more on the role of women, these actresses and what roles were assigned to these women. Of course, there are differences... In the early 1970s, Portugal was experiencing censorship. Artists too... And it's very interesting to analyze this file. TEP has a beautiful and extremely organized archive. By the way, this creation is very much based on the organization of the person who organized this archive, through lists and more lists and, within these lists, there are lists of the pieces that were censored, of the pieces that were prohibited. So, that's where we also noticed, for example, these cultural policies in the early 1970s. But, over these 70 years, these policies also change, because there are different artistic directions. Of course, if I wanted to talk about these last shows, or the themes that have been presented in recent years, are themes that are very different from the themes we are addressing in this creation. More women are directing shows, more women are perfoming shows. That's also a big difference... In general, there's a big difference from the 70's to today. Many years ago, these shows were on stage for a long time and nowadays they are only 2, 3 or 4 days. In other words, it also turns out that there is not much room for a show to grow. But "Elas entram e ficam!" is also related to these cultural policies or, at least, to the theme that we wanted to work on about female roles. "Elas entram e ficam!" is also what they enter: they, women, enter and stay, that is, we are here and we are here to stay, but the roles and themes of these women, their rights, also remain. We took some roles of some women in some plays that were performed in the 50s, 60s and 70s and we tried to get the dates of this creation. Because these themes, or these creations, that were made at this time, remain today: women's rights, the role of women, the place they occupy, what stereotypes are placed, what is demanded. So, this is also our way of seeing this cultural policy. Right now, here is me and this team at Teatro Experimental do Porto.
Sometimes we forget or go unnoticed these micro-stories. How are they important to the "main" story?
A large part, if not all of my work, is based on memory as a space, as a tool for transformation and creation. Memory is not sure, it is not reliable, and so is the archive. Its analysis is subjective, and that is its function and it has immense spaces. The photographic archive is the basis of this work and here if we are looking at a photo album or an album that is created on the piece... For example, the album that is created on the piece by Bernarda Alba. This sequence tells us a story, we perceive the history of the piece through photography. But then, each photo has a micro-story, that is, it alone manages to build a story, a narrative. We had some conversations... Because TEP has many associates and many artists who are still alive, and these stories they tell, their memories are fundamental for the construction of a narrative. Although we are not using the story we are telling, or the fragments of stories we are telling, although we are not talking directly about these micro-stories that we have been collecting or micro-memories that we have been collecting, they are fundamental to unite this entire narrative. Uniting not only the history of these female characters, but the history of these women... Which are also my questions, today, as a woman and as a woman-artist in this society.
There are things that not even a file can keep. Is what you find in the archive always incomplete? What is missing from the first person account? Or is there a certain freedom in being able to fill some holes with imagination?
For me, the archive is never closed, there are lots of open spaces. And these gaps, these open spaces, are incredible sources to be able to create. What interests me many times in photography or in the archive is what I am not seeing, what can appear. And many times, it's that micro-story that will give me what I'm not seeing, and what you don't see is what is told in the first person. The imagery side of someone who went through that moment, what this person observes in the photograph, the account of the person who is represented is fundamental. It is fundamental not only because this person was there, but also because this person will tell what we are not seeing. A large part of these stories that we've been building... It's not a linear story, it's built through several fragments, not just visual ones. The person telling in the first person gives us information that we don't have, and from there you can start building. Many of the stories that we tell, many of the reports that I talk about as if I were carrying these women, as if I were dressing up in these stories, in their personalities, also come from these reports that we have been listening to. At this point, this play was censored, this woman actress as a character was censored because she was wearing pants, these lines were censored... And why were they censored? They were censored at that time. And today, are they censored too? Maybe not in this society, but in a very close place they can also be censored. The stories of these characters are also the stories of several women then and today. Therefore, open spaces, for me as an artist in the archive, which always exist, are fundamental for you to be able to build, to transform and, above all, to be able to review your role.
Do you feel any responsibility in bringing these forgotten stories to life?
No, because I think these stories are not forgotten. Maybe the characters are forgotten, but their stories represent many women today. This creation also speaks a lot about me, about my issues, so they are not forgotten. They are fictional stories, there are stories that were told from real stories and many were not like that so long ago. And there are stories that we can see 1 or 2 years ago, that happen now, not being forgotten. These stories about us, women, continue to happen... So I don't think so, I don't think they're forgotten, they're alive.
Are there differences in cultural policies in a company like Teatro Experimental do Porto (TEP) today and in the early 70s?
There are many differences... Within the research that we were doing, and I am speaking in the plural, of course I have a very participatory team in the creation of "Elas entram e ficam!". But when I speak in the plural, I'm talking about me and Pedro Bastos, who did the research with me and wrote the text. All my work is done from memory and from the archive. So I decided to work from the photographic archive and beyond, from the pieces and other visual elements, but to try to understand which female characters were interpreted over these 70 years. Therefore, we focused more on the role of women, these actresses and what roles were assigned to these women. Of course, there are differences... In the early 1970s, Portugal was experiencing censorship. Artists too... And it's very interesting to analyze this file. TEP has a beautiful and extremely organized archive. By the way, this creation is very much based on the organization of the person who organized this archive, through lists and more lists and, within these lists, there are lists of the pieces that were censored, of the pieces that were prohibited. So, that's where we also noticed, for example, these cultural policies in the early 1970s. But, over these 70 years, these policies also change, because there are different artistic directions. Of course, if I wanted to talk about these last shows, or the themes that have been presented in recent years, are themes that are very different from the themes we are addressing in this creation. More women are directing shows, more women are perfoming shows. That's also a big difference... In general, there's a big difference from the 70's to today. Many years ago, these shows were on stage for a long time and nowadays they are only 2, 3 or 4 days. In other words, it also turns out that there is not much room for a show to grow. But "Elas entram e ficam!" is also related to these cultural policies or, at least, to the theme that we wanted to work on about female roles. "Elas entram e ficam!" is also what they enter: they, women, enter and stay, that is, we are here and we are here to stay, but the roles and themes of these women, their rights, also remain. We took some roles of some women in some plays that were performed in the 50s, 60s and 70s and we tried to get the dates of this creation. Because these themes, or these creations, that were made at this time, remain today: women's rights, the role of women, the place they occupy, what stereotypes are placed, what is demanded. So, this is also our way of seeing this cultural policy. Right now, here is me and this team at Teatro Experimental do Porto.
Sometimes we forget or go unnoticed these micro-stories. How are they important to the "main" story?
A large part, if not all of my work, is based on memory as a space, as a tool for transformation and creation. Memory is not sure, it is not reliable, and so is the archive. Its analysis is subjective, and that is its function and it has immense spaces. The photographic archive is the basis of this work and here if we are looking at a photo album or an album that is created on the piece... For example, the album that is created on the piece by Bernarda Alba. This sequence tells us a story, we perceive the history of the piece through photography. But then, each photo has a micro-story, that is, it alone manages to build a story, a narrative. We had some conversations... Because TEP has many associates and many artists who are still alive, and these stories they tell, their memories are fundamental for the construction of a narrative. Although we are not using the story we are telling, or the fragments of stories we are telling, although we are not talking directly about these micro-stories that we have been collecting or micro-memories that we have been collecting, they are fundamental to unite this entire narrative. Uniting not only the history of these female characters, but the history of these women... Which are also my questions, today, as a woman and as a woman-artist in this society.
There are things that not even a file can keep. Is what you find in the archive always incomplete? What is missing from the first person account? Or is there a certain freedom in being able to fill some holes with imagination?
For me, the archive is never closed, there are lots of open spaces. And these gaps, these open spaces, are incredible sources to be able to create. What interests me many times in photography or in the archive is what I am not seeing, what can appear. And many times, it's that micro-story that will give me what I'm not seeing, and what you don't see is what is told in the first person. The imagery side of someone who went through that moment, what this person observes in the photograph, the account of the person who is represented is fundamental. It is fundamental not only because this person was there, but also because this person will tell what we are not seeing. A large part of these stories that we've been building... It's not a linear story, it's built through several fragments, not just visual ones. The person telling in the first person gives us information that we don't have, and from there you can start building. Many of the stories that we tell, many of the reports that I talk about as if I were carrying these women, as if I were dressing up in these stories, in their personalities, also come from these reports that we have been listening to. At this point, this play was censored, this woman actress as a character was censored because she was wearing pants, these lines were censored... And why were they censored? They were censored at that time. And today, are they censored too? Maybe not in this society, but in a very close place they can also be censored. The stories of these characters are also the stories of several women then and today. Therefore, open spaces, for me as an artist in the archive, which always exist, are fundamental for you to be able to build, to transform and, above all, to be able to review your role.
Do you feel any responsibility in bringing these forgotten stories to life?
No, because I think these stories are not forgotten. Maybe the characters are forgotten, but their stories represent many women today. This creation also speaks a lot about me, about my issues, so they are not forgotten. They are fictional stories, there are stories that were told from real stories and many were not like that so long ago. And there are stories that we can see 1 or 2 years ago, that happen now, not being forgotten. These stories about us, women, continue to happen... So I don't think so, I don't think they're forgotten, they're alive.
© José Caldeira
